Single Mom S.O.S.: Her ex wants full custody!
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Every once in a while I post a Single Mom S.O.S. The first time for my friend Abby who was trying to figure out how to explain a break up to her daughter and now for another single mom, Tricia. The dilemma - her ex-husband wants to fight for full-custody of their oldest son, a 9-year-old.
First some facts. Tricia is amazing. She is light, happy, full of optimism and she loves her two boys.
Since their divorce in July she and her ex-husband have had 50/50 split custody of the kids. She says, “I didn’t fight for full custody because he’s a great father, and my father was so important to me. I want him to be very involved in their lives.”
Now, less than one year later, her son says he wants to live with Daddy full-time and his father is not only encouraging this notion, but threatening to go to court.
You can imagine the emotional pain she’s feeling right now. He’s nine and he doesn’t know any better…but still. She also says her ex-husband has been encouraging the idea. To make matters worse he is also threatening to take the fight to court.
My theory:
Her son is having some natural anxiety over the recent divorce and feels torn, but wants to be back in his old house with dad. (Tricia is the one who moved out to a new house)
We need your help. She’s reading this … so please, any legal tips, any advice on how to talk her son out of this. Anything at all would be helpful. This is just breaking my heart. I can’t even imagine…
Can a father even legally do this if the mother is 100% fit to care for her children?
P.S. Tricia is not on drugs or anything crazy like that and how could a father encourage 9-year-old to want this? Seems like he’s playing on the poor kids vulnerability and emotions right now.
If you have your own Single Mom S.O.S. request e-mail me at mssinglemama-at-gmail-dot-com. Your name will not be published.
[Photo Credit: Tks Massachusetts!]
Filed under: Being a single mom, Single Mom S.O.S., Striking thoughts
![Tks Massachusetts!]](http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.mass.gov/legis/bills/senate/st00/gavel.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.mass.gov/legis/bills/senate/st00/st00026.htm&h=768&w=768&sz=171&hl=en&start=1&sig2=tVXRDjYokVvhB2A-8rvpTw&um=1&tbnid=NUJRHbcYE5zB2M:&tbnh=142&tbnw=142&ei=PpISSKTiO5q0etnQnbUC&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dgavel%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG){kind=link}
It is extremely difficult to get sole custody, especially as a father. I can’t imagine that he would have a very strong case.
I fought for sole custody for some very serious reasons and wasn’t able to get it.
Maybe taking her son to see a therapist would be a good idea? It sounds like he thinks living in his old house would help him to feel better about the divorce. Perhaps talking to a therapist would help him to sort out his feelings and realize that he needs to deal with these feelings regardless of where he lives.
Ok. I’ve never blogged before!! But this hits home and I may have something to offer having been through this very painful experience. I’m in Georgia which is a non-entrapment state, meaning I can leave the state with my son, who is almost 10. I don’t know what state Abby is in but I think all states are a little different. First I want to say to anyone contemplating or going through a divorce right now….NEVER, did I mention NEVER agree to joint physical custody. (you pretty much always have to give joint legal so your ex can access medical and school records etc.) You can always give more visitation as YOU see fit, but it is near impossible, and very costly, to restrict visits if you give joint physical. You are divorced because you couldn’t agree on key issues. Why do you think you will be more agreeable after you are divorced, and eventually there are other people in your life and your ex’s life and so much can change so fast. Trust me on this one. Stay in complete control as much as possible. You will thank me for this advice later. Ok, onto the issue at hand. A few years ago I gave notice I was leaving to another state and so my ex took me back to court for a change of custody. (He only gets every other weekend and a hard to keep up with alternating year holiday schedule.) My son was 6 at the time, and like all kids around that age, easily manipulated. Basically, the law works like this….There has to be a ‘change of circumstance’ why the custody needs to be changed. Children don’t get to/have to make those decisions. Adults and judges do. If Abby’s ex is promoting a child to make adult decisions…well…not pretty. Your reason for leaving has just been validated and confirmed. Judges don’t like this scenario so if Abby does find herself before a judge, emphasize this irresponsible behavior. If you end up in court, it’s war, and go for the jugular. Remember, he is wrong to be playing these mind games. For many reasons, though he CAN take you to court, his chances of winning are…somewhere between zero and none…because:
Judges do not like to split siblings up.
There has to be something major like neglect or abuse on Abby’s part.
Children need their Mommies. Period. Judges have Mommies too!
Again, if he does take you to court, my additional advice based on experience is:
while the judge will want you to try to go work things out in the hallway to save court time, go and go through the motions but don’t agree to anything. I found that I was willing (out of fear) to concede more than I had to. In fact, though my ex requested at least more time with my son, say a mid week visit for dinner for instance, the judge denied him saying there is no reason to change anything. Matter of fact, after hearing my ex’s plea/case, the judge did not even require me to take the stand and defend myself because he said he heard nothing compelling a change and then proceeded to lecture my ex for about 20 minutes on how dare he come in and just act like now it was his turn to be the custodial parent. He actually told him if he brought me back to court again without grounds, he would RESTRICT his visits even more!!
And finally, if you end up in court and prevail, which you will, petition the judge for your ex to pay your legal fees on the grounds that you were forced to hire an attorney to defend yourself against groundless claims. That’s what I did and I got it. The judge called it ‘abusive litigation’ and I think it took my ex 3 years to pay off my attorney!!! A nice deterent against future stupidity don’t you think!! Lengthy I know, but I hope this helps.
Hello Single Mama and Tricia
I do a lot of work with mothers who live apart from their children as a result of family breakups and I lived apart from my daughter, so I know the heartache many mums face in this kind of situation.
Living in the UK I’m not familiar with your legal system but I would imagine, Iike the Sparklingmama says, it would be very difficult for the ex-husband to get sole custody under these circumstances. However, a lot of the time it’s not what happens in court that really matters, it’s about what happens in relationships that does.
My advice would be to try to remain as calm as possible - I understand this is hard but you want to draw you son to you, not drive him away with your panic, anger and a million questions. Gently try to get to the bottom of what is bothering him. It’s only natural that children have confused feelings about divorce and feel split between mum and dad. As dad lives in the family home, he is probably attracted by familiarly of it, it’s comforting and change through divorce is very hard for parents let alone kids. Finding a therapist is a good idea, perhaps for a Tricia and son session, and/or Tricia and children session.
Be calm but assertive with your ex, Tricia. I always say ‘think dignity’. The more upset you become, the more ammunition he will collect and possibly use against you. It’s also important that you son’s sees you behaving in a adult manner firstly because it’s a good rolemodel on how to behave and secondly because you don’t want him justifying to himself why he prefers living with dad. Sorry if this sounds tough, I know all those feelings you have about your baby and it seems impossible - but it happens.
April 25 is International Parental Alienation Day. PA is when one parent manipulates a child to turn against the other parent (I’ve just written a post about it). I hope this doesn’t prove to be true in your case but please read up on PA. Also, get yourself some good legal advice as soon as possible.
Hope this helps. Take care, go gently.
Talk to a lawyer asap about the laws in your state and his chances of this happening. My lawyer reminded me that this is usually a typical male tactic to manipulate things to how he wants, but then they rarely follow through. Stand firm and don’t give in!
If he DOES try to take it to court, I would doubt very highly the judge will grant him full physical custody even if the child requested it. They don’t like to break up siblings, and there’s NO reason to change what you’ve been doing. What did the boy say when asked why he wanted to move out? Maybe he’s worried about his dad being all alone, and also missing his old house? Is dad’s visitation the ‘fun time’ visitation? I agree that maybe a counselor might be able to help out with the transition, and just BREATHE!!!! Divorce is horrible stuff, but hang in there.
Lastly, a previous poster mentioned joint legal custody as a given for the other parent to get medical and school records. This isn’t always true as I have full and complete legal custody of my son (no the dad is not abusive/druggie/etc just indifferent), and it’s just written in that I share info w/him. I think it depends on the situation. Also, I know in IL I have to ask the court to move out of state and adjust visitation accordingly, and it can be denied if it seems to be out of spite! Every state is different and that’s why you really should at least talk to a lawyer. Good luck!
The ONLY tip to give her is to see her lawyer IMMEDIATELY about this. If she was unhappy with her lawyer, use friends (lawyer friends?) to find another one in her area who is a good divorce lawyer. Do not be penny wise and pound foolish. This is not a drill.
My friends who practice in these areas say generally that judges tend to give more weight to a child’s wishes as they get older - 9 is sort of in between on that - but judges can be all over the map, and it depends on what’s usual in the specific place your action is heard. State laws vary so much that it would be impossible for anyone who does not practice matrimonial law in her area to give her good advice, other than to remain calm and rational.
(Disclaimer: I am a mergers & acquisitions lawyer admitted to practice only in New York and Connecticut, but do not practice matrimonial law and this does not constitute legal advice or create any attorney client relationship.)
My heart goes out to this poster…..been there…done that…he lost MISERABLY! I’m in Canada so I don’t know what laws pertain to what for you guys but my first and formost suggestion is get the best lawyer you can. I know here you are given a free half hour consultation with most lawyers, if it’s the same there…use this time and get as much legal advise as possible…..Big hugs to you and keep us posted…if nothing else we can at least be a great big supportive shoulder to lean on…
Ok, I may get some negative feedback for this…what’s the big deal? If your friend admits that he’s a good dad, why not allow her son to make the decision to live with him? Yes, kids need mums. But kids need dads too. Especially dads who are willing to take a bigger role in raising their kids.
I agree with other posters that some counselling is in order, but for everyone…mum, dad and both kids. If this is happening now, it’s going to happen again as the kids become more independent and especially as they enter the tween/teen years. Both of my male cousin’s sons choose to live with their dad over their son. And the family that I worked with as a babysitter for a 5-yr period eventually ended up with all 3 boys gradually making the choice to live with their dad instead of their mom.
In the meantime, why not extend the amount of time he does spend with his dad? If he’s missing the house or worried about his dad being alone, this may help ease up his fears somewhat. Plus, this might get the ex to relax about pushing things into court and settling custody legally.
Rebs - I absolutely, 100% disagree. He’s 9!!! He has no idea what is best for him and every kid needs their father and their mother. And if that’s 50/50 fine - but not 100% one way or the other, especially if one of the parents is such a fine parent (Trisha).
Thanks everyone for your comments - SO helpful and encouraging. Trisha called to say thanks to all of you!
It’s a manipulation tactic. Kids are so impressionable, but kids can be as manipulative as adults. It kind of sounds like the child is trying to run this. Honestly, the Father should have squashed this idea in his son, not promoted it, shame on him. The adults make the decisions in the children’s lives. Once the children start to get the idea that they can manipulate and control things then bedlam ensues.
Sounds like the father and the son could both use some good counseling. Not the legal kind though…but a good lawyer would should tell him the same thing, no point in pursuing this unless there is solid evidence for doing so and if there isn’t, it will only harm the children.
Wow. This is tough. I have two boys and many people have told me that there will come a time that they might want to live with their dad full time…. I’m not looking forward to that - if it happens. They are 6 & 8 now.. and if my 8 year old told me he wanted to live with his dad full time I would tell him to try it out. Over a long vacation. And that we would talk about it and see… But I think it’s important that the child feels heard, and validated. Don’t dismiss it out of hand. Work with him. WOrk with his dad (if you can). Make sure he understands that living with his dad *all the time* means not with his mom. Maybe he doesn’t understand that.. since his dad is in the original house.
My heart goes out to you.
Oy. I wish I had some experience with this so I could give friendly, if not legal, advice. It is, in my opinion, always wise to see your attorney and discuss the situation because knowledge is power. And it sends the message that you’re ready to fight, if need be.
Aside from that, I am sorry to offer no more than condolences and an ear. I wish your friend the best.
-R.
MSM, I think we far underestimate 9-year olds. Can any one of us claim that we know what is best for our kids? We’re all doing the best we can but, chances are, we’ll make mistakes. The best thing my mum ever did was sit me down at age 18 and talk frankly about the things that she wish she had done differently with my brother and I as we were growing up.
I might be missing something, but would living with his dad keep him from his mum? I’m assuming that the 50/50 split would change so that he’s at his dad’s house more nights than not, so correct me if I am wrong!
Believe me, at times I feel like The Mook is mine. All mine. I carried her for 9+ months and birthed her and breastfed her. I wish I didn’t have to share her with anyone, let alone someone I couldn’t stay married to. But a dad who will stand up and take more responsibility is, well, a stand up dad. Yes, he could be going about it a bit differently, but now is their chance to start dialogging, albeit with a mediator if they need to. They have a lot of years ahead of them in which situations like this might occur again.
Some people here are using common sense.
And some people here are using the typical “child as property” arguements. My god! We couldn’t possibly let the DAD have the kid! Even if it’s what the kid wants. Even if the dad is, admittedly, a “good dad”.
A 9 year old isn’t a baby. No, they don’t reason like an adult - but I see some adults here who are not reasoning like an adult. Like most things in life, the “middle road” should be explored. Like Rebs posted - why not work with Dad so that maybe it’s a 60/40 or 70/30 split and see how that works out?
Listen, eventually Mom may have to come to terms with the fact that Child would rather spend more time with Dad.
By the way, I don’t think 100% custody is a good idea. The child should see Mom some every week, or at least every other weekend. Again, this is what usually happens to Dads, so please, no double-standard.
Not all dads are jerks.
Unless custody modifications vary widely state by state, the child’s “wishes” at this time to go live with dad are not grounds and would not be considered at a custody hearing. With that said, I would definitely encourage counseling to get at the root of why the boy wants to change homes. They may very well be honest, valid, and (cringe) in the child’s best interests — even though a judge would not change custody just on the whim and wishes of a none year old.
My parents divorced in the 70’s. I was a tomboy and very close to my father. Mom took care of my needs and was always there for me. However, I “connected” with my father and enjoyed all of the magic moments we had together fishing, going out for a drive, or just working on projects together. Dad kept the house and mom and I moved to an apartment in a nearby city. Although I loved mom dearly, I really missed the old house, my bedroom, my friends, and being with dad every day. At 10 years old, I’d secretly wanted to live with dad from the beginning, but they just didn’t give fathers custody back then. After a year, I asked my dad if it would be okay if I came to live with him. He was thrilled. Then I spent the day few months trying to convince my mom that I loved her, but just preferred to live with dad. She cried, made excuses, tried to buy my affection and became a Disney mom with mother-daughter outings and trips. Then finally, she agreed. Over the next 8 years, my dad did a tremendous job as the custodial parent, and I spent a lot of time with mom. Although she was afraid that she would lose me, our true child/parent relationship really didn’t change that much. It took a lot of effort on everyone’s part, just as it does when the father is the “visiting” parent. Mom is mom and dad is dad - that will never change and it has nothing to do with who cooks the most meals for the child or picks them up from Girls Scouts on a rainy day.
My sister just lost residential custody to her ex because of the same thing. she could not afford an attorney and had all kinds of proof from his CCD teacher to his school teacher ant so on. I am trying to get in touch with a some type of advocacy group to picket the court house because she is a wonderful mom. They shared custody but he won full custody now. So my advice would be to get a lawyer asap because you never know what kind of judge you may get. Good luck to you
These are all really, really good points. Thank you so much for your comments. Very helpful, I’m sure to anyone going through this.
I love your story LJTM! You’re right mom is mom and dad is dad.
And Sue? A picket line! Good for you!
I am going thru the same/similar situation. My ex refuses to do our 7yr old daughter home wk during the time he does have her. I have always tried to promote his relationship by remembering his birthday and allowing him extra time, all a while he burn/stabs me. I wanted the divorce and honestly thought we could all be friends. There was a hx of abuse and he had cheated on me twice. Now he is trying to prove me unfit. I am scared to death. He wont let me talk to our daughter when he has her but is very demeaning if I miss his call, but turn around and call him back with an hr or two. My heart goes outto all who are in this same situation as well as my prayers..
Thank you MeoMia, I so needed to hear your advice. I hear the same from my lawyer and everyone else, but it doesnt ease my fears. I gave up all financial and house to keep full custody and know his new wife that he cheated on me with is now trying to take my daughter.
Hey guys!
I cant even believe this site. I am going through the exact same thing only it is with my 14 and11 yr. daughters. In fact, I just got served papers today for his full custody. We have been going through this for 1 and a half yr. He has completely suceeded in alienating my girls from me. I have never felt so defeated. I dont understand why they cant see how damaging this is to the children.
I am about ready to lose it emotionally!!! My child that has kept telling that there was emotional/ physical abuse just told me that they had lied about everything, then turned around told me is it all right that I told daddy that we talked and then that the new wife was hitting and pushing my ex husband. Fo 3 yrs I was told and csb was told that bad things were happening.
Everyone says that he is bing programed by by ex to set up to take custody from me.
We all need to help one another
Mia mama if your still reading these post plz help
Anne
Are you out there? Are you ok? How is everything going? Take Care and God Bless!!!
I just said good-bye to my son who is almost 17. My eyes are swollen from crying for the past 2 days. He wants to be with his Dad now and I don’t think it’s a good idea but I am letting him try it for a month. His Dad is a really great Dad and all but I feel that he is doing this for the wrong reasons. My son has treated me terribly the past year or so and finally I agreed to this trial period. He is my baby and I am divorced. He is everything to me. But maybe it is time.